Pass Rushers - OLB

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Gut, Nov 3, 2014.

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  1. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Are you suggesting we take Collins as a top 3 pick???

    4-3 DE's are not the same as 3-4 OLB's as the OLB actually drop into coverage...4-3 DE's don't. Also, 4-3 DE's are bigger than typical 3-4 OLB's. 3-4 DE's are closer to 3 tech 4-3 DT's in size, speed department whereas 3-4 NT's are usually the biggest of all DL in either system. A lot of differences though more similarities as more teams play a 1 gap 3-4 D (like we do).

    Who's the best DT/NT in the NFL? Suh, McCoy, a Wilfork in his prime. Any of them worth a top 5 pick in your opinion?
     
  2. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    JJ Watt...best defensive player in the NFL?

    There is a lower bust rate on OL...howd that work out for us on Warmack?

    You will see players of all sizes make it from a totally undersized Robert Mathis. For a 6'4 Robert Quinn you find a 6'2 250lb Jerry Hughes. Size has SOMETHING to do with it but can your game translate is what really matters. I wouldn't take Dupree over Shane Ray just because he's slightly taller and I doubt you'd take Tony Washington over vic Beasely...would you?

    You can quote busts all you want. I can post them for EVERY position. Doesn't mean we shouldn't take one. And when the Giants were beating the Pats, they did it will pass rush and taking pass rusher after pass rusher in the draft. Did all of them pan out? No, but during that time they could always rush the QB with 4 guys!!!

    We can't!
     
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  3. titans1839

    titans1839 Starter

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    I have actually seen a lot of places that have Bud as a middle to late first round guy. Once people get a beater look at him at the senior bowl and at the combine, I would bet is he will go 8-15. I would love to be able to trade back and get him. His floor is a lot higher that the other prospects even though his ceiling might not be as high, its not much lower. His size and ability make his a great OLB to rush and help in the run game. I am fully on his bandwagon right now.
     
  4. kenny

    kenny Starter

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    Hey Gut, Got an info on Nate Orchard??? I can't find much and would really like your opinion & analysis if you will. The guy looks legit, but you seem very well versed in evaluating these guys.

    Appreciate any info & effort you can put into it!!

    Always love your evaluations of these kids! Keep up the great work man!
     
  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Thanks for the compliments:)

    I dont have a definitive analysis of him at this time. I havent watched much of Utah and this was his breakout season. He's not like Beasely in that you can go back and see previous years of game tape. To me his Bowl game (against inferior competition) should give you a good look at what he should be able to do. I will be more interested in seeing his pass rush skills and how he holds up against the run in the Bowl game but where I think we will get a better eval is the Senior Bowl practices and game.

    Based on what I've seen, like Dupree, he's a bit of an enigma. He is good with his hands and is very effective redirecting inside. But he does sometimes flash a great outside burst. I know he likes to guess the snap count cause Ive seen him get a couple of sacks this way. Also like Dupree, they can look avg on the pass rush and go nowhere. At other times, they turn it on and can blow past OT's pretty easily. You will see this below. He seems to be able to use his hands to disengage blockers well and they move him around from OLB to DE to DT. You will notice when they line him up further out is when he tends to blow past OT's. However, this could also be the QB's...Hundley and Mannion had very deep drops and didn't step up. He is also up and down against the run. Sometimes he flashes a quick drive into his gap and takes the RB down for a loss. At other times you see him get blocked out of the play and off the LOS.

    He reminds me of a cross between Fowler and Dupree. Like Fowler he has some quicks but is a little on the raw side. Like Dupree, he can stand out in a lot of different ways but doesn't also do it consistently. Unlike Dupree and Fowler, you will see a lot of runs right at him. In the first video, you will see him get better as the game goes on and they start double teaming and chipping him. one other thing I saw was a few times they tried to block him with a RB. No one would make that mistake with Fowler and Dupree (and probably not anymore with Orchard either). Like Shane Ray, he is not the lone pass rusher and you see other players also apply a lot of pressure.

    Here's something to check out...

    I tried to link 2 vids from NFL Draftbreakdown but they keep coming up as something else:( Just go to that website and put in Nate Orchard and you will see 2 vids you can watch vs UCLA and Oregon State.

    Similarly, I'd like to hear your thoughts after watching these vids if you would.

    Cheers!
     
  6. Wolverine

    Wolverine Starter

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    Keep your eyes on Danielle Hunter as draft day approaches stats do not do this guy justice, he's as disruptive as they come. Only a junior and is expected to declare early.
     
  7. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    trade back.

    I see some Shane Ray love but like Gut said, goes a long way when you have another very good pass rusher on the other side. He also managed to get himself kicked out of the biggest game of Missouri's season, that raises a bit of a flag. If we can trade back and still manage a fringe top 10 pick or top 15 pick then that means...

    -We pick up extra picks, with the amount of holes we have more picks isn't bad. I'm also assuming we get a 1st next year so if Mett doesn't work out, that means better pick on QB and other on OL or another playmaker on defense. That's a win-win.

    -Amari Cooper could be available, he won't go in the top 5 like mocks are saying now, he's a legitimate game changer and maybe we can finally have a true #1 WR. Defensive players are needed but adding one guy to a line up of black holes won't do a whole lot compared to what Cooper can do for an offense.

    -Landon Collins, not trying to be a homer. He's a SS in the NFL but has been versatile and talented enough to man the FS duties for Bama this year. Very smart, high character, hard hitter, ball hawking, and finishes his tackles. We could cut Pollard loose or use Collins as our main back up for both Safety spots next year.

    -Shaq Thompson. I don't know if he totally fits our scheme because idk what Washington runs but every time I see this guy play he's making plays. He could probably be an ILB in the 3-4? I would take him over Woodyard if so.

    -La'el Collins. Really like this guy out of LSU. Can plug him in at G replacing Levitre or at RT and Oher is gone/swing OT.

    There are some other guys like Eddie Goldman, Vic Beasley, and Dante Fowler. If we keep the pick, I would hope for Leonard Williams or Randy Gregory.
     
  8. Wolverine

    Wolverine Starter

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    @The Playmaker

    Agreed. We need to trade and accumulate as many picks as possible. We have a lot of needs this year. Pass-rushers are as a big of a boom/bust pick as quarterback in the 1st round. Just go back through the 1st round of pass rushers de/olb and you will see how many haven't lived up to expectations especially top 10.

    Really would like to get Leonard Williams and a pass-rusher round 2.
     
  9. titans1839

    titans1839 Starter

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  10. kenny

    kenny Starter

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    After watching the videos the biggest issue I saw was he wanted to take more plays off than I would like. You see a few times he is in position to beat his guy, or tackle the RB, but he doesn't apply the effort to get there. Other times he would beat the OT BADLY. He has a quick 1st step and his speed shows up when he is rushing the passer. He got pushed out of the play & off the LOS more than I would have liked. Seems like it was a bit too easy for the OT to redirect him at times. He looked his best when other pass rushers were coming too, and took the focus off him. He looks raw, but very athletic. His hands looked good. He seems like a guy that will need to develop, but will contribute.

    In the run game he struggled more than made the play. In the UCLA game the RB just flat ran him over twice. I only saw him defend one pass & he got beat on it. Really wasn't even close. He will rush plenty, but at OLB he needs to be able to cover as well IMO.

    I think he will eventually make an impact at the NFL level if he commits to honing his skills, but he will probably do best on a team with a vet OLB/Pass Rusher to help him grow & motivate him.

    I gotta say your analysis seemed pretty solid for not really looking at him hard. Impressive.
     
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