Once Manning and Brady retire

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by nickmsmith, Sep 15, 2014.

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  1. CalgaryTitansFan

    CalgaryTitansFan Pro Bowler

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    God I hope so, just so my friend can understand how much it sucks to cheer for a mediocre team. He knows it's coming once Brady retires too lol.

    Absolutely, there will always be ebbs and flows. There will always be those great 2-3 qbs in the NFL. And to those saying "meh" on Brees, you're idiots. He's done more with less throughout his career.
     
  2. kstone

    kstone Starter

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    The funny thing about stuff like this is the qb that becomes the face of the NFL will probably come out of nowhere and not get much hype during his college career.
     
  3. Thaddeus43

    Thaddeus43 Sunshiner President

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    Like Tom Brady?
     
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  4. GOFIGURETITANS

    GOFIGURETITANS Pro Bowler

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    Man, with everything goodell is doing. ... you are witnessing the decline of the nfl in general. Not to mention all the attacks for their personal behavior, injuries, politization, the us freakin senate wasting tax payer tine and money trying to force the REDSKINS to change their freakin name.

    It's all going to crash down.
     
  5. luvyablue256

    luvyablue256 Starter

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    Mett baby

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    This, of course, is an extremely complicated subject and open to a ton of debate. So let's throw the cards on the table.

    What makes a great QB? Great stats in the regular season? Great stats in the post season? SB rings? Do we consider the talent surrounding the player? Do we consider the coaching? All of these things are factors not to be considered lightly.

    Right now Manning and Brady are 'considered' by many to be the top 2 QB's in the league but the reality is they aren't. Sure Manning has done his thing...lit it up in the regular season last year, but he laid another egg in the SB. So Drew Brees is not even close even though Brees has set records and has just as many SB rings? And Brees played better in his SB then Peyton did in his. And for all of the excellence that has surrounded Peyton, history may not forget his other historical records...like most one and done's in the playoffs his first decade in the league (I don't remember exactly). And keep in mind they altered the rules to favor Manning after NE's CB's played tough bump and run all over the field. Manning had to deal with it for one game and stunk up the joint. Marino played his whole career against players bumping his guys all over the field. So who was better? I've seen how Manning plays against that kind of competition. Now imagine if Marino played today WITHOUT his WR's getting beat up? And I'm not a Marino fan!

    Brady was a relatively average QB last year. QB rating in the upper 80's, 25 TD's. Put another way, Andy Dalton was better than him in the regular season and people were calling for his job after a bad playoff loss - which is somewhat similar to Peyton's start with regular season success and playoff pain - not to say Dalton is the next Peyton). My NE friends will say...yeah, but who was around him? So how much is the great Tom Brady a product of the talent surrounding him? And the coaching? His record breaking seasons had either Moss/Welker/Gronk. Take them away and we get an average QB?

    So this argument really revolves around the importance you put on stats, wins, post-season wins and SB rings. Manning has better regular season stats, but Brady has more wins. Some might put an asterisk next to those SB wins because of the spy gate thing...because after that, they had 2 awesome SB teams that were both upset by the Giants...no SB wins since.

    Brees has both awesome stats and a SB win with his only appearance (against Manning no less). Then you have Big Ben who played as poorly as can be in his first SB but outplayed Brees and Manning in the SB his 2nd time. He's got the same number of rings as Brees and Manning combined and some good regular season stats.

    Perhaps a nice debate to have with yourself is who is better...Eli or Peyton. Peyton has all those records and gaudy stats, but he only has 1 ring even though he's been favored to go and or win a lot more. Meanwhile, I would argue that Eli isn't a top 10 QB in the current league but he, like Big Ben, has more rings.

    To further that point to an extreme, Terry Bradshaw has a lot of rings but no one ever mentions him after they discount Marino's greatness because he has no rings (but Bradshaw isn't great despite having many?)!

    Most people feel Montana is the best. He won during the regular season, he won in the playoffs and won in the SB. Others may have more come from behind wins, but Montana was a winner - regular season, playoffs, SB. He found a way to win. He didn't care about throwing 10 300yd passing games, he cared about WINNING!!! No better example of this may be the times he faced a Buddy Ryan defense. Typically Buddy's defense beat the heck out of Monatana for 3 and a half Quarters before Montana pulled the game out late!!! And the story of Montana pointing out John Candy in the stands to his offense right before the DRIVE to win the SB against the Bengals is epic. Peyton on the other hand, has melted down a lot in the SB. Brady has recently too.

    Now there is an argument to be made that Montana had Bill Walsh who came up with the innovative West Coast Offense which is still used today. Was the innovation of the offense and it's invento give Montana an unfair advantage? Perhaps. But you still have to execute. Brady had Moss and a record setting offense...they didn't play great and lost! Peyton had the biggest record setting offense and regular season dominance a QB could dream of, but still didn't play Peyton Manning like in the SB this year. A 2nd year QB outplayed him?

    You asked who are the next young guns but dismiss them as not worthy since they haven't done it for a decade? Young players who have shown promise to get there are Wilson, Kap, Luck and Dalton. Keep in mind, Wilson has better stats than Manning did in his first couple of years AND already has as many rings already. I include Dalton only because his stats are similar and everyone throws the same negative his way...not strong enough arm strength and lack of playoff success.

    But to suggest Manning and Brady are on some unreachable pedestal is a little over the top considering Manning keeps failing on the biggest stage and Brady is far from his heyday. Meanwhile, Brees is also putting up Gaudy stats and has as many rings as Peyton. Rodgers has shown he can be Peyton like in the regular season as well as outplay him in the post season while doing it with LESS! Where do you put Big Ben? Also doing more with less (his best weapon is with Peyton now) is Big Ben who has more rings then Peyton and better numbers than Brady. Most people who don't watch football wouldn't know the kind of mediocre year Brady had but they would know the embarassment Peyton would suffered at the hands of Seattle! Meanwhile, you have a Phillip Rivers who sometimes looks like a top 5 QB and sometimes doesn't.

    While Brees and Rodgers certainly have some national commercials, they are not close to the respect the NFL gives Brady and Manning! On that front, things WILL feel differenet once they are gone, but not because there won't be some excellent QB's playing!
     
  7. 520

    520 2020 GOAT CHAMP from 3-7 to champ

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    Is that the dance METT does while he isn't playin football sundays
     
  8. dg1979us

    dg1979us Pro Bowler

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    One, you are looking at a different era. Brady and Manning might be the top 2 QBs ever (or close), but I think certainly both top 5 at least. Honestly, Russell Wilson I dont really think he is the best QB in the league, but I think he is the toughest to defend. He is super smart, can run, is very accurate. The new era is already here with Wilson and Newton, it just isn't the same old school thing we grew up with.
     
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  9. dg1979us

    dg1979us Pro Bowler

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    I agree with most of this. Brady, Peyton, Montana, obviously have their place in NFL history as maybe the 3 best ever, or least top 5. But, as of today, Russell Wilson is the hardest QB in the league to defend (and has a SB). Wilson is super smart, can run, and is very accurate. As long as he can keep his athleticism (which he needs because he needs the running aspect), then he is the best QB in the game. Newton has a shot, great runner, better arm, but not as accurate as Wilson, but going forward those are the 2 that will shape the league.

    In saying that, Luck is going to be great too, but, I think Wilson and Newton are going to top luck.
     
  10. Dee

    Dee Pro Bowler

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    Russel Wilson will be the face of the next great QB's.

    Luck will probably have the stats but he won't win more rings.

    Wilson is a beast.
     
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