Horton: 4 Games before we see true D

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Brew City, Aug 28, 2014.

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  1. Fry

    Fry Welcome to the land of tomorrow!

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    Don't mean to derail the Locker debate(because that's never been discussed before), but I figured a thread about the defense deserves some news/speculation on the defense.

    I haven't seen it announced yet(could have missed it), but according to the depth chart on titans online, BWW won the #2CB job.

    http://www.titansonline.com/team/depth-chart.html

    Note: This is a fully updated roster with all moves, including waiver pickups.
     
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  2. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow All-Pro

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    it was unofficial according to PK and Wyatt, but lets be honest, thats probably accurate.
     
  3. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Even though he uses nuance, it seems to be lost on you. So you don't mis-understand the article, it said the players getting 90% of the snaps will get it in 4 games (with the combined snaps of the pre-season being equal to about 1 game). Therefore, the extra 4 games (8 games total) is for the players getting the other 10% of the snaps. Got it?

    If we are not good defensively, it won't be because we don't know/understand the system, it'll be because we can't stop the run to force teams into obvious passing downs....or we can stop the run but are OLB's can't rush the passer....or the poor tackling that has plagued this defense will continue. Only run fits would come under the heading of transitioning to a new defensive scheme. The rest of it is purely the players doing what they already know what to do!

    And I do appreciate you disagreeing with our DC who has installed this D several times on how long this will take. Can you give any reasoning behind your disagreement with his assessment??? Cause he sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

    And the FACT that other 3-4 defensive gurus are saying the transition doesn't take that long would also put more pressure on your theory with no evidence.
     
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  4. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    To be clear, what is your definition of struggle? Bottom 5?

    Granted pre-season means almost nothing, but we are ranked 14th in rush yds per game. Last year, we finished 14th in rush yds per game. not seeing an obvious statistical loss to support your theory other then you think CJ is better then all of our RB's.

    But keep in mind a few things. First, nearly all of CJ's metrics are staying the same or declining. That's NOT good. He had his first sub4.0 ypc ever and had his first season with ZERO 40+yd runs. He also only got 1077yds. Hardly elite back status.

    To be fair, look at him against other RB's in the league. Total yds (11th), Yards per game (15th), Rushing TD's (tied for 19th), 1st downs (tied for 10th), # of 20+yd runs (tied for 17th). He also had the lowest YPC of any back in the top 49 with his number of carries or more. With these numbers, I don't see an elite back. In some things he was average and in some things above average, but you can't pay him like he's a top 2 RB because he's not even in the conversation. Or put another way, he was Zac Stacy last year. Both had 279 carries and similar stats. Replace Zac Stacy off the Rams with Shonne Greene, Dexter McCluster and Bishop Sankey and you think they will take a hit...let alone a BIG hit?

    Keep in mind a few other stats...CJ accounted for only about 57% of our rushing yds and only 1/3 of our rushing TD's. Considering our yds per carry for the team was 4.1 and CJ's was 3.9, one can make the case we ended up 14th as a team somewhat despite CJ. I will give you that I think CJ is better then his stats last year because I think we all saw him dogging it til the final game, but he wouldn't be better for us! And we weren't gonna pay him elite dollars to be mediocre!

    And one more thing to consider. Our offense uses more multiple formations and different types of runs to attack the defense every which way and is a much more sophisticated passing attack so our scheme should give us a lot more success to off-set any 'lesser quality' you think we have in the backfield.

    So how badly do you think we are going to struggle running the ball? And how great do you think the Jets rushing attack will be with CJ rushing for them this year (albeit in a split role as well)?
     
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  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Are you serious? How did the Giants beat the Bills in the Super Bowl? The Bills had a better overall team and a Hall of Fame QB. The Giants had a backup QB, a retread RB and Mark Bavarro. LT was no longer the Super Demon he once was. So how did a solid, supremely well coached Giants team beat a more talented team on offense and defense facing an offensive scheme almost no one could stop?

    There are many many many examples of this which you will equate to luck or some such nonsense. Is it a wonder KC went from terrible to being a dominant AFC last year before injuries killed them? Seems to me they added an avg QB and a very successful coaching staff. Must have been the avg QB, right?

    And your Peyton Manning comment is both helpful and hurtful to your argument. But if your argument had any real proof, you wouldn't need to use one of the top 5 greatest QB's in NFL history to make your point. But even the great Peyton Manning blows your theory. For example, when the Colts lost to the Steelers in the playoffs (the one where Manning threw his OL under the bus after the game), you saw the 'problem' of Manning running and creating his own offense. yes most teams didn't have the personel or coaching schemes to handle him and other Hall of Fame level players, but coaching beat the great Manning - the QB. You see, Manning called the protections and didn't account for Dick LeBeau figuring out the protections he liked to call, so LeBeau gave his OL a major problem - one that Manning didn't adjust to. He was sacked 5 times in that game! The great Hall of Fame Quarterback was outcoached by a Hall of Fame DC. Peyton Manning threw his OL under the buss but didn't realize til much later...probably after watching the tape...that HIS protection calls were the problem.

    Still think great players are everything vs great coaching? If that's true how do you account for the above. Or another easy example, how do you account for the greatest offense in NFL history (statistically) getting - not contained - but DESTROYED by an above average talented D that played phenominally? How does a group of above average players create a totally dominant D?

    I'll give ya one guess!
     
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  6. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    It has to be somehow thanks to :cj:
     
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  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    LOL!

    You are funny!!! You just dis-proved your own theory without realizing it. Alex Smith was a nobody in college til he had a great coach (do you know who?). He gets over-drafted into the NFL because of his college stats under said dominant coach. He promptly is less then mediocre in the NFL. He stays that way...until....his team gets another great coach. Overnight, he goes from not being even starter material (below avg) to being an ABOVE AVG QB. Let's see, the above avg QB plays poorly without great coaching...and plays well WITH great coaching. HMMMMM...is it the quarterback's natural talents....or the coaching?

    Then he goes to a team that were nobody's but go an avg talent QB but a great NFL coach and what happens. The QB plays above avg and the team suddenly is dominant. Great players who all happened to stink the year before...or great coaching that got the most out of the players.

    In case you're still confused, you might check out Bill Parcell's career. he turned around the Giants, Pats, Jets and Dallas franchises and usually did it within a few years!
     
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  8. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Really? Who won the SB? The ridiculous Hall of Fame QB with the rediculously pass happy record setting offense that the league adjusted the rules to favor? Or the strong run dominant defensive team that played better as a team (coaching) then they did as individuals? To emphasize that point, Peyton Manning led the league in passing yards per game...#1. Russell Wilson was 32nd in passing yards per game....he was last.

    Who won and why?
     
  9. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    This is a big digression but I will address it.

    First, Munchak was the coach, not the GM. Our GM is at least 50% responsible for Locker if not 100% (it IS the GM's JOB to pick the players). And if Locker has a big season and stays healthy, how many of you will give any credit to Munchak? No one. Everyone will high five Ruston. You can't have it both ways!

    Secondly, IF Locker had stayed healthy even a few more games last year, we probably make the playoffs and Munchak is still the HC. The reality is, even without that, if Munch wasn't as stubborn as he was, he was still given the opportunity to be the head coach. So yes, even a slightly more healthy Locker saves Munchak's job most likely.

    It's funny, a guy leaves and he's the worst coach in history. The reality is, you can't really blame the HC for a key player getting hurt. They could not have done anything differently in 2013 to change Locker getting hurt. You want to blame him for some poor assts or coordinator choices? Agreed! Not getting more from players? Agreed!

    But if you look at NFL history, not many teams make the playoffs with a backup QB....especially a team that can't rely on a strong running game and strong defense. We had neither and still had chances to get there. Not enough great coaching to make up for the major mistakes at QB. And it didn't help that CJ was phoning in the season. Can you blame the coach for that too? Sure.

    No need for a response to this, just a little reality check.
     
  10. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    That is interesting. personally I didn't see anything great or horrendous from either player and as such, they may have concluded that Sensabaugh has a lot of experience in the nickel so let him play there with the bigger BWW on the outside.
     
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