VY 10 pass attempts video. Judge for yourself

Yep. I'm just making stuff up.

That was a great pass thrown on a line directly where it was supposed to be. He read the blitz perfectly, got his feet set, stepped in to the throw and put it exactly where it should have been...and did you see the spiral? BUT...Hawkins had to ruin it by running the wrong route.

There you go Vince, his mom, and whichever other relative of his that's logged in on the names above me. That's what happened!

 

^^^^

 

^^^^ Morpheus E ^^^^

 

A couple points....

As far as Vince throwing into coverage.....it's always seemed to me that "throwing into coverage" and "threading the needle" are exactly the same thing; the only difference is whether the play results in a completion.

On those throws to Hawkins, had Hawk squared his route instead of rounding it off, then the route ends up being about a yard or so shorter. If he does this, then the throw that appears to be in the dirt becomes a well-placed throw, low and outside....and on the pass that was knocked away, putting the receiver a yard closer means the defender doesn't have room to cut in front of him.

This is exactly why coaches place so much emphasis on route running...making square cuts and running to exact depths. When a play calls for a receiver to make his cut at twelve yards, it doesn't mean eleven yards or thirteen yards. Twelve yards means running it to exactly twelve yards and making a hard, square cut. A yard difference in either direction throws off the timing and design of the play, resulting in exactly what we saw on these plays.

Now, the INT play....even though Hawk admits he blew the route, it still strikes me as a bad throw. The only way that pass is completed is if the receiver wins a jump ball situation....and Hawk doesn't strike me as a jump-ball type of receiver. I disagree that Vince blew the read; his pre-snap read told him that Hawk would be in single coverage, which was absolutely correct. Vince threw it to a spot well outside the safety's range, so that the receiver would have only one man to beat. Unfortunately, the receiver blew the route and the throw was off, resulting in an easy INT for the cornerback. But without knowing the design of the play, we can only speculate as to what the correct read was. Is Vince supposed to read the blitz and throw behind it, as has been alleged? Or if his pre-snap read tells him Hawk will be in single coverage down the field (which was also correct), is Vince supposed to disregard the blitz and go to the other side of the field, knowing that the ball will be out before the blitzer can get there? Only Dinger knows for sure.

I also think a lot of people are downplaying the TD pass....an absolutely perfect throw. Perfectly timed, perfectly placed, perfect trajectory....heck, even the pump fake to bring up the safety was perfect. Had any other QB made that play, everybody would be saying, "Vince couldn't make that throw." Well, he just did. Whether or not he can do it consistently remains to be seen.....but in that game, he had only one shot at making that throw, and he absolutely nailed it.

(Not taking anything away from Paul Williams, who made a very nice catch, and did a helluva job with the toe-tap to stay in bounds. A lot of guys might have allowed their momentum to carry them out of bounds there; great work by Williams to control his momentum, and great awareness of exactly where he was in relation to the back line.)

I'm not trying to be a VY apologist here; I simply think Vince is getting blamed for things that aren't necessarily his fault....or not his alone, anyway. Sure, the throws to LW and CH could have been better...but I disagree with the assertion that the throw to Lendale was simply awful. There's no question that it was thrown behind the target, but it went through Lendale's hands and bounced off his back hip or thigh.....a difficult catch, yes, but not nearly as difficult as people are making it out to be. It would have been a nice "hands" catch, but hardly an amazing catch.

Same thing with the throw to Henry.....it was a bit high, but the guy got both hands on it, and should have completed the catch. This is the NFL, after all. When a ball hits a guy square in the hands, he's expected to catch it.....period.

Did Vince look good in the preseason opener? Nope. But had these plays resulted in completed passes, then there would be far less criticism. Granted, the throws could have been better, and made the receiver's job somewhat easier....but on most of the plays in question, the receiver contributed as much or more to the eventual failure of the play.

Wow....this turned out to be a really long, ranting post. I had no intention of doing that, and I don't blame anyone who didn't bother reading it. But like I said....a lot of people are quick to throw blame on Vince, while giving other players a pass for similar mistakes. If Vince is expected to deliver a catchable ball with a defender in his face (difficult, but part of the job), then we should also expect the receiver to catch a ball that's a bit high or behind him but still catchable.

 

On the throw to Hawkins mayb Hawk did run the wrong route. The problem I have is the defense was in a zone, VY could have thrown the ball away or pulled it down but he ended up throwing the ball right where Hawkins made his break. Unless this was a button hook the pass sucked. If he was supposed to run a button hook the pass should have been thrown on a dime.

For a QB things don't always go exactly as planned. That is why making quick reads and quick decisions is critical and the QB should NEVER throw up a wounded duck pass like that.

 

No sox, I explained it earlier. At the exact corner where Hawk made his break, where the DB picked, it, he had to jump up in the air and his hands were over his helmet. So the trajectory tells me that if it were to have hit someone in the hands/breadbasket, it would have been about three steps farther down if Hawk had kept running straight. It didn't hit the DB like a sitting duck. If the DB would have just stood there, the ball would have went right over his head.
The D may have been in a zone, but the DB would not have been standing in Hawks path had he kept running straight.
Now, Hawk and the DB may have had to fight for the ball if Hawk had ran straight, but I seriously doubt it would have gotten picked.

Youtube videos aren't exacltly the sharpest res, so I couldn't see how the ball behaved in the air, but it looked fairly spiral-ish.

 

Great post.

... and actually after reading this I went back and watched what happened on the INT - you're right. Vince's read saw Hawk in single coverage outside... and that route was shorter than Davis' post, so knowing the blitz was coming it was good to take the one that developed quicker.

I will say this - someone missed a blocking assignment on that play... the S coming in between the tackle and guard got picked up by 2 guys, letting the DE come with a free line to the QB.

It's good to have football back...

 

double post